Superheroes 10/20 – Archetypes, duality and Wolverine (Updated 10/23)

Update:

In class on Friday we took another look at the reading from below, and focused on these three questions:

  • Who/what is Wolverine?
  • Who/what is Wolverine supposed to be?
  • Are we attracted to archetypes because they are how things are “supposed” to be?

For homework, those of you who didn’t post on Thursday should do so here this weekend. Use those narrowed down questions above to help if you were stuck before.

***
In class today we talked about the X-Men character Wolverine. We watched a couple of clips from various X-Men movies and filled in some knowledge gaps people unfamiliar with the X-Men might have.

Then, we reviewed some key words from this year: archetype and allegory. We also talked about duality. Remember that from 9th grade Romeo and Juliet?

In class (and now for homework) we read this article: the-best-there-is-wolverine

For homework, answer question #3 that’s on the front page of the reading.

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13 thoughts on “Superheroes 10/20 – Archetypes, duality and Wolverine (Updated 10/23)

  1. A) Wolverine only believes that he’s an animal due to his past actions of using his powers for negative reasons such as assassination and wars, but he forgets he is still human and that his powers don’t overwhelm that but is just an addition to who he is.
    B)It ties beautifully into God Loves, Man Kills due to everyone being put into mass hysteria because they fear the powers that other humans have but due to this fear they exile them and give them terms to not associate themselves with abilities that isn’t showed in religion for only God can have these powers thus they are seen as demons and monsters, due to it being just a additional x chrome.
    C) Humanity is attracted to archetypes because there interesting and give another realm for a story that we can relate to. Good and evil, very basic but we all felt ourselves make decisions that can be categorized as good or evil, so when we read about characters who embody these archetypes we can relate which gives us the appeal.

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  2. 1) This applies to Wolverine because he chooses to view himself as an animal that does not have any human conscious and only kills to fend off his enemies and possibly protect the ones he love, but because he chooses to believe that he forgets that he is also human. He forgets that he carries this human nature or does not realize he has it and he’s not just a mutant, he is also human.
    2) In God Loves, Man Kills, humans forget that the mutants are just like them, but only carry special abilities which includes the mutants as well. The Mutants feel like they are nowhere near human because the powers they carry due to the way society chooses to treat them, as Outsiders. Based on their views brings the idea of dividing themselves with one another and the ideas about each other/themselves.
    3) Humanity attraction to archetypes does apply because the idea can transcend through cultures and connect to the basic archetypes there are. With these characters in storybook, we as readers find a way to connect them which develops the idea of archetypes such as the battle between good or evil, heroes journey, or a tragic hero.

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  3. For the quote I read it as social ideals of what society believes is right vs. who people actually are inside.
    a) The quote applies to Wolverine because he follows duality. He is an animal yet also a man. The internal battle to keep both parts of him balance. Instead of society encouraging him to embrace both parts of him they only want one side of him; his human side. When Wolverine shows his beast side its consider inhuman yet he is a man; that never changes the fact that he is still human when he is in beast mode.
    b) In “God Loves, Man Kills” mutants are view abnormal monsters set out to destroy humanity’s peace and not humans who ended up with odd powers and go through the same hardships of regular humans. Society judges them for being different because they fear the unknown instead of accepting and getting to know them for what they are in the inside.
    c) Humanity’s attraction to archetypes applies to this quote because in humanity’s lives they face the social standers vs who they truly are. The battle of fighting against societies injustice happens in real life too. The archetypes of good and wickedness happens in our lives and with ourselves. Giving us the emotional connection to the comics that get us to understand these characters better and appeal to it more.

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  4. A) The purpose of Project Weapon X was to create super soldiers. As part of the program, the agents selected for the project had their memories suppressed in order to make them into the perfect sleeper agents (perfect agents to go under cover), Wolverine was one of those agents. This quote applies to Wolverine because although he was supposed to be one of those agents, as shown in the final clip shown in class, rather than be the perfect soldier he was supposed to be and kill without remorse or hesitation, he shows mercy. He chose his human side, to be compassionate rather than choose to be the weapon he was designed to be. This shows Wolverine’s sense of identity, he values his humanity and who he is , more than what he is physically.
    B) This quote relates to the book God Loves, Man Kills as a whole because in the book people that support Rev. Stryker choose to view and discriminate/alienate mutants because they look different and have powers, in doing so they fail to judge the mutants’ character. The humans discriminated because the mutants were different and Rev. Stryker justified this by referencing (or rather of referencing) in the bible. Since mutants weren’t mentioned in the bible, Stryker reasoned that the mutants shouldn’t have existed and proceeded to play the role of executioner and hunt the mutants.
    C) This quote relates toward human’s attractions towards archetypes because humans can relate to this quote and archetypes. For example stories that last such as Wolverine, people relate to his journey to find himself because there comes a time in life such as during adolescence where we also try to find ourselves and try to figure out what kind of person that we want to be. This quote that Cyclops says ” ‘Is what we’re supposed to be more important than what we actually are’ “, is a question that we sometimes ask ourselves. Do we want to be what supposed to be and what others make us out to be or do we want to be ourselves and see if people can learn to see and accept who we are. In the case of the latter, sometimes people do jump on board and support your decision and other times, they don’t. People are afraid to be who they are out because they might be rejected by others. Stories that don’t have relate able archetypes don’t tend to last because people aren’t as attracted.

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  5. A) Wolverine was on a constant journey to find himself. He has to deal with the duality of being man and animal, God and man. Pieces of his past can not be remembered therefore he loses his humanity in a way. This is why wolverine is shown to be mostly only a savage in his first appearances. With his more complex backstory that he gains, he gets back to his human side , which plays a major role in what Cyclops asks Stryker. The whole time Wolverine was trying to find himself, he lost sight of what he thought he was supposed to be instead of what he really is: a mutant that fights for good.

    B) it’s clear that the allegory of “God loves, man kills” is to accept diversity. Being different is essential to being human. There can be no other you. Stryker feared different which caused him to lose sight of what’s really important: being who you are.

    C) I honestly can’t connect these two , sorry Shulkin

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  6. a) I believe that quote applies to Wolverine because he is always fighting to decide whether to be a monster/animal, which means he killing and destroying everything he sees, or being a human and show mercy, even to his worst enemies. He is so focused on what he should be that it clouds his judgement on what he actually is.
    b) This quote also applies to ” god loves, man kills” because through out the story mutants are seen as monsters by human. However, the mutants themselves do not see each other as monsters. Some see themselves as just regular people, but at some point they have to decide whether to be monsters like the human sees them and how humans believe mutants should be or be themselves.
    c) This quote applies to humans attraction all the time. We always see the way society wants us to be and sometimes we forget to be ourselves. This includes the way people dress, the things they speak, and when people decide to do surgery to making certain body types bigger or smaller than how they were. A lot of us focus on fitting in instead of focusing on the way we want to be and a way to be proud of who we are, not who you are pretending to be.

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  7. a. (Logan) Wolverine’s main goal was to find who he really is. He was born with the ability to regenerate damaged or destroyed areas of his cellular structure at a rate far greater than that of an ordinary human and also was given with unbreakable skeleton/claws. Logan accidentally kills Rose with his claws, causing him to leave the colony and live in the wilderness among wolves. This is an example of Wolverine thinking that he is not being able to live among people for what he did and chooses to believe he’s an animal.

    b.Cyclops says that the mutants are humans just like everybody with some special skills, like athletes or doctors or scientists. In the comic “God loves, Man kills, Stryker stirs up religious anti-mutant fervor and kidnaps Professor X in an attempt to eradicate all mutants. It is one of the most clear-cut examples of X-Men comics using mutant relations as a metaphor for race relations. At the end of the book, Cyclops points out that only through love and acceptance will humanity and mutants be able to live side by side together.

    c. We are always influenced by social media on what is the new “norm” and sometimes we want to be something other than ourselves. People try to relate to things because they don’t want to look different or discriminated. Therefore people are attracted to archetypes because it’s a collectively unconscious idea, of a pattern of thoughts or images; universally present in individual psyches.

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  8. A)This quote is applicable to Wolverine; due to the mystery of his past has always been destructive. Therefore he considered himself as an animal. Due to the negative use of his power such as to destroy places and kill people. Therefore he forgets that he is still part of the human society, and that his power just a special talent that life had gifted him with. B) In “God loves, Man kills” fear had blind human by seeing mutants as monsters the Stryker believed that mutants were not belong to God, that there are belong to the devil. Thus they forget that those mutants are human being just like them but with special talents or power that they had received as gift from life. Therefore the mutants felt like they are different from humans because that’s the way they were treated. Thus they end up dividing themselves based on their believes. C) this quote applies to humans attraction because our world has set up a society that uses us as resources to improve our world and we lose sight of who we really are or who we really destined for.

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  9. This quote applies to wolverine because he falls in between animal and human with extraordinary features. Since he plays these two roles he is constantly trying to figure out who he actually is and where he falls in society. When he is an animal he tries to embrace it but he also tries to be humane which interferes with his decision making and who he is as a person, which makes him more important than what he is because he doesn’t know what he is, so he stands out from all the rest.
    This applies to god loves man kills because mutant are seen as taboo/ monsters. Although the mutants themselves see themselves as actual humans but they have to realize what they really are, if they are mutant or if they are human. They are discriminized for their abilities and who they are.
    This quote also applies to humanity’s attractions because in general most people try to fit into the norms of society. They would go to the extent to change their appearance or who they are to fit in instead of embracing who they truly are. In addition people are discriminated or cast away for who they are like mutants.

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  10. Archetypes attract an audience to the plot of a story. However it is difficult to say we are attracted to archetypes because they depict how we believe things are “supposed to be”. This is because everyone’s “supposed to be” idea is different to another person. We our attracted to archetypes because we can connect with them. Once you can connect/ relate to a story you are going to be more interested. For example one of the archetypes in the Wolverine is, “Wolverine, like the whole of humanity, has never quite known who he is” (72, Starr). Everyone in some point of their life has not truly known who they are. It is something people experience from when they are born until they die. I myself have not found out who I truly am and this makes me more empathetic for the Wolverine because I have walked in his shoes. Archetypes attract an audience to a story because they are relatable more than because they are how we picture them as what they are “supposed to be”.

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  11. A) For Wolverine, I think that who he is, which is a man who is caught between worlds yet has the ability to decipher the virtues of others, is much more important than being a machine bent on being an animalistic killer.

    B) I think this applies to all the mutants in God Loves, Man Kills as well. Being something you’re not only cuts you off from your roots, but also destroys the possibility of existing in harmony with the two worlds. Being who you are–in this case, a mutant– is the easiest way of saying “I exist”.

    C) Same for humanity as well. Media is constantly changing, and we are always trying to adapt to the “next big thing”. However we sometimes lose sight of who we are.

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  12. This quote applies to wolverine because wolverine has mutant powers and he is supposed to use them for good and be a icon to people sort of like a super hero. But wolverine doesn’t see it that way or want it to be that way he wants to stay isolated and be by himself and not be an icon. So it connects to him because is what society wants more important than what he wants.

    This quote applies to god loves man kills because the rogue super heroes in the story want to do handle crime their own way but society wants them to handle it differently. So you can see is what society wants more important than what the super heroes want.

    This quote applies to humanity’s attractions to archetypes because people try to adapt to the social norm and try to be like something they are not.

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  13. A. I believe that Wolverine fights himself to truly understand who he really is .Because he acts like a animal at times where he nearly kills .Like for example fighting Saber tooth you see the animal in wolverine until his lover stops him from doing so by reminding him who he really is .Now by understanding the importance in who you are whether you have powers like Wolverine or not depends on what you make of it not what others think you should be but what you make of it is what truly brings out what you make of this.
    B. This compares to God loves Man kills because how they are treated through society .For example they are treated as non human creatures .But are also depicted to a threat to society which makes them look bad .And one group is aiming to make a peaceful fight while the other has different perspective of how mutants should be treated in there society .And because of the bad that has happened the mutants are discriminated .
    C. This compares because the quote shows who you are as you change because of something or to be who you really are and in Humanities and Archetypes this compares because the attractions that people get makes them change by not who they really are but by what it wants you to be .

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